'I can't be reasoned with, Geez'. These were the words spoken by a 'Yoof' who had pursued me from my flat in central London in response to my attempt to talk him out of attacking me. Despite not wanting to be reasoned with, fisticuffs were averted, I went on my way and he returned to the school playground bemused but better off than he would have been had his emotions got the better of him.
Since the beginning of the year I have been pointing out that Agents' Mutual's exclusivity rule will be its undoing. Russell Quirk has already dubbed the enterprise 'ConTheMarket', as well as making a complaint to the Competitions Authority, so storm clouds are already gathering.
If you have signed up for Agents' Mutual it may be that you too don't feel like being reasoned with but really I'm not your enemy. I am an estate agent with 10 offices, we advertise on Rightmove and Zoopla and, of course, I would like to see the industry unite and provide a credible alternative property portal that would give us control over our online destiny and control spiralling costs.
However, Agents' Mutual is going to do none of these things. What is much more likely is that it strengthens Rightmove, adds grist to the mill of online agents, alienates our clients, gives the mainstream press something to crucify us with, damages the interests of high street agents, brings about more unwelcome legislation and leaves OnTheMarket members open to vicious attack from their non-Agents' Mutual counterparts.
Imagine you are a fly on the wall listening to some imaginary future conversations. Let's start with the Chairman of Rightmove and his Chief Executive at their private club in Mayfair
(Please note, these conversations are imaginary)
CM: How are you old bean, classic Bentley running well is it
CE: Yes, thank you, and I trust work on the Super Yacht is progressing smoothly
CM: Quite so, but what brings you here, my boy
CE: Well, sir, it's 'that' time of year again and I bring good news. You remember me telling you we were all getting a little worried about that upstart Zoopla treading on our toes and making it harder to achieve the exponential fee growth targets.
CM: (Face darkens, grey eyes look thunderous) What of them I thought this was good news
CE: Oh it is, it really is. Remember the falling out we had with Ian Springett and that idea he had to start up in competition with a bunch of old school chums
Well, their rules say their members have to choose between us and Zoopla and it seems that they are almost all going to choose us (bursts into hysterical laughter).
CM: Cheers old boy, make that a double (fee increase that is).
And now let us alight in the press office of a well-known tabloid newspaper
Headline writer: Ow bout this Guvner: 'Extra extra read all about it - estate agency cartel exposed, extra extra read all about it.'
Editor: You are an idiot, remember your place. You're a bloody paperboy, not a headline writer.
Paperboy: Sorry, guv, got carried away a bit.
Editor: But you do have a point. Go and fetch ace reporter Dirt Digger and tell him I want him in my office, now.
And now we go into the home of a recently instructed vendor
Husband: Oh Maud, what have I done
Wife: Oh Henry, it's not your fault.
Husband: I know, but I feel such a fool. You do still love me, don't you, Maud
Wife: Of course I do, Henry, because I know you'll put it right.
Husband: Yes I will because I'm angry and filled with righteous indignation. Maud, pass me the telephone and make me a cup of coffee with two sugars.
Wife: Oh Henry, (swooning voice) you are so masterful.
Husband: Is that the manager No wonder our house hasn't sold, I'm sending you back the cooling off notice forthwith.
Estate Agent Manager: But it's only been a week
Husband: Yes, thank goodness six of your local competitors let me know so promptly. Sir, I bid you good day (slams phone down dramatically). Maud, forget the coffee we are going back to bed.
I am trying to show that with the exclusivity rule in place, everything Agents' Mutual seeks to achieve is likely to achieve the reverse. It wants to strengthen the high street but it will grant a huge marketing USP to online agents.
'Not only are we cheaper than the market leading high street agent, we have a greater reach as well, let me explain why,' is what they'll be saying come January.
Agents' Mutual wants to preserve the high street agent but it threatens to bring all traditional agents under the negative scrutiny of the press and the authorities.
It wants to tame Rightmove's fees, yet its policy of recommending members drop Zoopla will do the reverse. This has, for me, been the most perplexing and challenging part of the Agents' Mutual strategy because it seems so obviously wrong.
I have tried to put myself in Ian Springett's position and see things from his point of view, because he clearly believes it is the right strategy. What I have concluded is that this strategy is based on the instinct of the predator to cull the weakest animal from the herd. It's that simple.
Let me give a different analogy. Imagine three armies, one Righmove, one Zoopla and one Agents' Mutual. In this scenario imagine that Agents' Mutual has enough firepower to hold off both Rightmove and Zoopla indefinitely, or to damage just one but not enough to defeat them.
Agents' Mutual has decided to throw everything they have got at Zoopla, putting them at the mercy of Rightmove, whereas the right and obvious strategy is to bring Rightmove down to Zoopla's level, thereby increasing the industry's bargaining position, not reducing it.
Either way, post Agents' Mutual, users will no longer be able to see almost all the stock on either Rightmove or Zoopla, instead have to visit both which will mean the traffic of both will go up not down and there will still be no need to visit OnTheMarket.
It's true that Zoopla has a slightly lower market share than Rightmove. But it is closing the gap, fast. The fact that Rightmove has a lot more page views is actually the result of a clumsier user journey and probably does not produce more unique visitors, or more serious enquiries.
So, if you really can't be reasoned with about joining Agents' Mutual because it's too late, for goodness sake choose Zoopla not Rightmove. It will cost you less, you will get just as many serious enquiries and you will have improved your negotiating position, it's therefore the right decision for logical, pragmatic and emotional reasons, I rest my case, for the moment anyway........
Article written by Simon Shinerock, Chairman of Choices Estate Agents. For more information on Simon, see his LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonshinerock.
Comments
Ash, I'm pleased you are amused, the article was meant to be humorous. However there are good reasons why no-joiners want to voice their opinions, just as joiners do, its just a shame we have to separate into camps don't you think Id far rather hear what both sides have to say in one place. Once again though and this does get tedious i admit, as a supporter you fail to refute one thing, just on tiny thing that I have said, don't be shy, go for it
It makes me laugh that people who do not want to join Agents Mutual complain about it and advise others not to join. Don't you have properties to sell. Either join or SHUT UP
'These "outspoken but misguided individuals" you refer to - at what level exactly in the AM heirarchy Springett level Member Agent Directors Or the hundreds/thousands who are putting their faith - not to mention their hearts and souls - into making this venture work'
When I refer in general to AM supporters I am actually addressing anyone who wants to champion their cause, up to now no one has managed to refute the criticism I have leveled.
'And I don't want to see that happen. What about YOU, Mr Shinerock - where do you stand You seem from your writings to be a "told you so" kind of guy'...
PeeBee its hard arguing with someone who fundamentally agrees with me and yet takes issue with my motives. You have read my article and the others before it, they spell out my reasoning and I notice you don't take me to task on any single point.
I realize you have written tens of thousands of words on this and I kind of understand that you see the whole endeavor as noble if possibly misguided/flawed. I see the whole issue as quite simple. The AM concept, however noble, has two big flaws from which many bad things flow. These two flaws are the exclusivity rule and the barring of non high street agents. I disagree with them both on principle, and for pragmatic reasons.
I realize that bringing principles into the debate opens a can of worms and Im definitely not making myself out to be a moral councilor but I do have a choice and my choice is to find both these two approaches detestable. This, together with additional anecdotal evidence, gives me enough reason to put over a counterpoint argument, which, as it happens is in the interests of the Industry you are so passionate about.
What I find repellant is the general principal of exclusion; to me it smacks of apartheid, coming from a minority group myself I find this especially poignant. So I guess I feel for the likes of Russell Quirk and others who want to break into a business, misguided though their approach may be. I understand that established agents feel entitled to their turf and they are certainly entitled to fight for it, provided they are prepared to get as good as they give.
I also believe in free competition and I dont like it when it comes under attack, especially when I dont trust the motives of those doing the attacking. I fully understand that monopolies need controlling and that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire but to me this is like the use of agent orange in Vietnam, it damages the land and it ultimately doesnt work.
Saying something is broken/useless and discarding it is easy - repairing it (or helping to...) gives far more eventual satisfaction, and you learn more about its workings in the process
And here we come to the rub, I was forbidden from even participating virtually from the beginning. As I have said before, Ian Springetts decision to ban me from an open meeting to which I had been invited and to turn my FD away at the door was all I needed by way of confirmation that my instincts are right. If I had been included and if I had been allowed to ask questions and get answers things may well have been different.
As it is you put it very eloquently yourself Better to remember the old saying, Sir - "What goes round..."
"Challenging (and oblique) as ever..." Thanks for throwing in an early compliment - are you trying to get on my good side by any chance
Let's just say I try to meet, if not exceed, the expectations of others...
"...unlike you i have no interest in keeping in with a bunch of outspoken but misguided individuals." Sorry KEEPING IN with them I'm high up on their MOST WANTED - DEAD OR BARELY ALIVE LIST, Mr Shinerock! And I care not one fuppeny...
These "outspoken but misguided individuals" you refer to - at what level exactly in the AM heirarchy Springett level Member Agent Directors Or the hundreds/thousands who are putting their faith - not to mention their hearts and souls - into making this venture work I have utmost respect for those who argue their 'black' to my 'white' [b]when and if[/b] the argument is driven by passion for the industry - and I believe that many of those that I have been in a state of 'constant gloves-on' with for the last nigh-on year sit in that camp. Are they blinkered Are they misguided Am I the one who is "wrong", for that matter Answers on a postcard, please...
What I DO know is that there is a huge amount of drive behind the AM venture and it is, I would suggest, the belief in it which is driving it forward. And, I am certain, will be pivotal in any degree of success to come. If it [b]does[/b] fail, then a great many individuals will have invested not only good money, but also a big chunk of their energy, heart and soul into the cause because THEY believed that it was right for the industry.
And I don't want to see that happen. What about YOU, Mr Shinerock - where do you stand You seem from your writings to be a "told you so" kind of guy...
"I have found its much easier to criticise a thing than to fix it" Saying something is broken/useless and discarding it is easy - repairing it (or helping to...) gives far more eventual satisfaction, and you learn more about its workings in the process. I crave knowledge about the industry I inhabit, Mr Shinerock. I poke, prod - and gnaw away like a demented Jack Russell - until I get what I seek.
And I don't give in, as a rule. It's a gift and a curse rolled into one neat parcel. [b]MY[/b] both-ways cutting sword, if you like...
Challenging (and oblique) as ever PeeBee. I have found its much easier to criticise a thing than to fix it, thats a sword that cuts both ways. When it comes to motivation, mine has been steady from the get go, by which I mean birth, not the birth of AM albeit moderated by experience and responsibilities. I, like you would be AM's biggest fan if they fixed their proposition, unlike you i have no interest in keeping in with a bunch of outspoken but misguided individuals. I agree that sometimes things are not black and white, AM is not one those things, AM as currently constituted is wrong, if it does not change it is going to fail and in failing it will at the very least create disappointment and in the worse case cause the industry a lot of heartache.
Mr Shinerock -
"I think there is another reason why there is less engagement this time and its because I have demonstrated that my reasoning is irrefutable, by them at least." In response, I will simply quote some of your own words back at you, Sir -
"I don't think that's it at all".
So - then we come to
"From what I understand you are not an AM supporter yourself, isn't that right"
I do not support ANYTHING or ANYONE who threaten the industry or the public it serves. AM is an essentially brilliant concept - but it has more than its' fair share of 'issues' in my humble (and almost unique) opinion - and it is these issues that I have a problem with and nothing else. I've used tens of thousands of words nailing my colours to the mast in that respect so I'm not going to repeat myself. When they iron out the issues or prove conclusively to me that they aren't issues at all - which so far hasn't been achieved - I'll be OTMs greatest fan.
That said, you have kindly given me cause to raise another issue - but this time with the following statement you made above:
"On the other hand, if and when I'm proven right and AM fails badly and causes a lot of disappointment, I don't suppose I'll get any thanks but that's the way of the world."
No, Mr Shinerock - you won't. But then you shouldn't expect any. And you certainly shouldn't OPENLY WELCOME the prospect that such an unfortunate situation may present itself in the way that you do. Better to remember the old saying, Sir - "What goes round..." We are poles apart in our thoughts and opinions - and I surmise we have VERY different agendae for having them.
Of course, if you'd like to continue this line of discussion - well, I guess you know where to find me... don't you
Actually PeeBee I don't think thats it at all. I think there is another reason why there is less engagement this time and its because I have demonstrated that my reasoning is irrefutable, by them at least. From what I understand you are not an AM supporter yourself, isn't that right My suspicion is that AM is on its back foot and the word has gone out not to engage with me, which is a shame because it is enjoyable,like shooting fish in a barrel. On the other hand, if and when I'm proven right and AM fails badly and causes a lot of disappointment, I don't suppose I'll get any thanks but that's the way of the world. Nice to hear from you anyway, I may well snoop around over there but my guess it will be pretty silent on the AM front just now.
Unless I'm mistaken you're referring to the 'loan' amount that is a condition (sorry, COMMITMENT is the phrase used, I believe...) of Gold Membership to AM, NWAgent and not a "price" - any late joiners are lending less, so will be getting less in return by way of lower promised interest payments on the loan amount. Almost makes sense - but I have previously likened it to a 'DFS Sale' scenario...
I think they've all finally given up on EAT and its "interesting" stance on certain industry matters, Mr Shinerock - so I guess if you want a further confrontation you'll need to take another little sortie over to THEIR camp and see whether the welcome you receive is any warmer than previous visits to The Dark Side...
Where are all the AM supporters, are you all in shock Have you applied the exclusivity rule to my articles Can I take your silence to mean capitulation This is nowhere near as much fun as before.....
Did anyone else notice that AM has dropped their prices for the Gold Membership in the latest mail pack Didn't it used to be 2k per office (1k now)... What gives Think if I had signed up at double the cost I'd be a little steamed!
Hi Maurice, thanks for responding, I did try to make this piece entertaining as although the subject is still important, it is getting a bit old now and the players are becoming more entrenched. I'm sorry my point is still not clear. Of course I don't want a duopoly but a duopoly is better than a monopoly and before Zoopla that's effectively what we had. I think the groundswell of resentment against the portals actually started well before Zoopla was even a major player and it was obviously directed at Rightmove. I'm sorry that AM aren't the answer to controlling the portals but as I used to tell my kids, two wrongs don't make a right. I think if AM were more patient, less arrogant and more willing to enter into a dialogue then the concept could work without the one other portal rule. I can think of at least one way that agents could work together to achieve this goal without signing away their self determination for five years. I accept that the idea behind the rule is to disrupt the market but what it has actually done is to polarise agent opinion. In my view the AM approach is sad and embarrassing for the industry, it has not been properly thought through and if they persist on their current course the whole venture will end in tears. I have said several times that agents don't need two major portals, all you need is the will to play one off against the other. The tricky dilemma is how to take back control from the portals, there is no dilemma so far as AM is concerned, not in my opinion, it's very clear to me that they have got it wrong on almost every level
Simon, I read your piece with interest. But whilst very entertaining with all the analogies, I am not clear where you stand in this debate Are you happy with a duopoly where agents are fleeced year after year as prices are hiked by the two major portals because they can get away with it. Without the two portal rule, which I can kind of see from the agent mutual perspective, how many agents would take a punt on a third as yet unproven portal - it would gain very little traction and be an expensive waste of time, when the whole concept is to give agents greater control over their portal spend. I am actually of the opinion you don't need to be on anymore than one portal to be honest, I think agents are lazy and far too reliant on portal enquires - but I don't like the idea of Rightmove becoming anymore of a runaway train than it already is. It is a tricky dilemma.
Simon, I read your piece with interest. But whilst very entertaining with all the analogies, I am not clear where you stand in this debate Are you happy with a duopoly where agents are fleeced year after year as prices are hiked by the two major portals because they can get away with it. Without the two portal rule, which I can kind of see from the agent mutual perspective, how many agents would take a punt on a third as yet unproven portal - it would gain very little traction and be an expensive waste of time, when the whole concept is to give agents greater control over their portal spend. I am actually of the opinion you don't need to be on anymore than one portal to be honest, I think agents are lazy and far too reliant on portal enquires - but I don't like the idea of Rightmove becoming anymore of a runaway train than it already is. It is a tricky dilemma.
We get much more leads from Zoopla than Rightmove at the moment anyway! Zooplas adverts are seen everywhere! On the Market may have drummed up some sort of business but after the first few months agents will go back to RM or Z as On The Market can never be as big! I do not know of any buyers, sellers, landlords or tenants that have heard of them... there are even still some agents that have never heard of them! How can they compete when nobody knows they exist! I wouldnt join On The Market but if I was then I will wait until they have the exposure otherwise I could be turning down sales!
There may well be a solution but as I say, AM isn't it, the exclusivity rule will make things worse
A point I have made many times
Philip, What do you find odd
Something odd is going on here, I wonder if Simon Shinerock and Alex Chesterman are long distant cousins or related in some way.
[quote]Whats your solution then Sit back and do nothing and just take it [/quote]
How about when they start charging enough that buying their product no longer provides you a good return on investment, you...I don't know...stop buying it Why do you need Agent's Mutual for that
Also I assume since this is caused by "appalling treatment by rightmove," then you will be dropping RightMove and not Zoopla, right
You seem to miss the point in that this issue is caused by the appalling treatment by rightmove on the very businesses that provide the data that makes them what they are; agents didnt sit back and think "what can we do to pick a fight", it was simply a case of we provide the data, work hard for the instructions and get treated like..well you know what. Without the physical agents neither rightmove or zoopla would be worth a penny and for that reason they should stop treating agents like a money spinner. Whats your solution then Sit back and do nothing and just take it
One other observation: I don't understand how agents that buy into OTM justify it as a good business decision. The choice to drop ZPLA/RMV if you feel that one is all you need is understandable and justifiable (we have done analysis that shows for us the cost of having both subscriptions is far outweighed by the leads they generate for our vendors), but you don't need OTM to drop ZPLA/RMV--if the cost of the two memberships doesn't provide good return on investment, just drop them! And if you have decided that you are fine to go with one alone, why then turn around and spend as much money on a second portal (OTM) as the one you just dropped, when obviously traffic and inventory won't be nearly as great Would love someone to explain this to me.
Jason, just because you say it's so doesn't make it so. If you disagree with me explain why please. My views are based on logic and deduction, if you can fault my reasoning then go for it, if not, well, as you say, you are entitled to your view.
Simon,
The point is that this is now the 4th part of the 'industry quake' saga and you continue to demonstrate that you have no understanding of what Agents Mutual hope you achieve. You think you do but you don't. You also claim that you are an estate agent, but once again you clearly demonstrate that you are not.
Just a view.
Jason, I have never said Zoopla is on our side, I don't understand your point, sorry
Simon,
You think you get it but you don't. Zoopla are not going to help 'even the playing field with Rightmove' they are just going to make things worse, they have share holders to adhere to, and have already said that they plan to raise fees in line with Rightmove and Rightmove have said this year that they will raise fees by a further 12%. And so it goes on.
So why on earth do you keep proclaiming that we should stick with Zoopla as they are on our side.
Jason
'I've got it! I've got it! The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! Right'
Hope this helps:)
Funny,
I can't wait!
Hi Simon,
Just to confirm that if we can't be reasoned with we should drop Zoopla but if we can be reasoned with we should drop Rightmove is that right
These articles are getting annoying. That said, the man has a point. Joining this crusade and then choosing to drop Zoopla not only has no point, but is counterproductive. And since we are not prepared to drop Rightmove and be crushed by our competition, we have decided not to participate in OTM.