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Spencer Knight case highlights differences in CMP schemes

Thursday 12th July 2012

The case of Spencer Knight has highlighted differences in the various CMP schemes, Ian Potter, managing director of ARLA, has said.

Potter also confirmed that ARLA has strict rules about members who acquire lettings portfolios from other agents, and must be able to cover all the liabilities.

He said: “If a member acquires a portfolio, either through portfolio purchase or business purchase, then any shortfall must be made good with immediate effect by the acquiring agent.”

The lettings portfolio of Spencer Knight was acquired by Lime Lettings, with no money changing hands.

Potter was also asked for his views on an early warning system, as proposed by the SAFEagent scheme and reported by LAT on Tuesday.

He said: “There is at present much intelligence sharing within the industry, and much of it is found to be without substance, and this is one of the problems but does not mean it should not happen.”

He also said that using the custodial scheme, the Deposit Protection Service, was not necessarily a fail-safe method.

He said: “There is much confusion that use of DPS, the custodial scheme, provides total protection. It does not. There are examples of CMP claims where the deposits had not been registered or paid over when the business failed.”

Potter said of the different Client Money Protection schemes: “The Spencer Knight case does highlight one of the differences between the CMP schemes, as if the misappropriation can be proven to have taken place during the period of membership, ARLA CMP would consider a claim from either a landlord or tenant.”

He added that there was unlimited run-off with ARLA's CMP, and that claims could be made at any time. In other words, if an agent were to leave, or be expelled from ARLA, and then go bust later, ARLA would consider claims relating to when the agent was a member.

He confirmed: “We do not time restrict it.

“After a longer period it becomes harder to provide proof of misappropriation. If the business was still trading, we would want to know what steps had been taken to recover from the agent. Landlords have a much easier route usually to provide proof on non-payment than a tenant may have.”

On the NALS site, it says that when members of the public make a claim against the CMP scheme, the first thing it will do will be to ‘verify that the firm is currently part of NALS’.

We asked NALS, whether this means that any landlord or tenant of a firm that was no longer a member of NALS could make a successful claim, even if that claim related to a period of membership.

NALS said: "Full details of the NALS Client Money Protection scheme are available on the NALS website. Inclusion under the NALS Client Money Protection scheme ceases when an agent leaves or is terminated from NALS. The policy underpinning the NALS CMP scheme does not offer unlimited liability.”
 
We also asked RICS for details of its CMP scheme. The organisation has responded, and we will be publishing its response on LAT next week.

The NALS scheme insurers are BRIT/QBE, and the ARLA insurers are thought still to be RSA. Neither NALS nor ARLA appears to provide this information on their sites.

Both Client Money Protection schemes say they will compensate a landlord or tenant up to a limit of £25,000, with landlords capped to a maximum of three months’ rent. Both schemes will pay out a total of £3m in any one year. NALS limit the top individual payout to £300,000 and ARLA to £500,000.

RICS and the Law Society operate CMP schemes, each using a fund into which members pay money.


Added by industryinsider on 2012-07-14 07:39:02

Saying CMP without accountants reports is like saying motor insurance without a driving licence.
The reports are at least a hint in the right direction but no foolproof.
Added by A Reply to Mel on 2012-07-12 17:09:59

@Mel

You want and insurance scheme available for agents who dont have to comply with any accounting standards or subscribe to any code of practise or have PI insurance or be part of a redress scheme.

Good luck with that - if they do have to have all those things - then they are being regulated by someone - if they dont - no insurer would touch it. There are only 2 who do as its is.
Added by Dave Evans on 2012-07-12 17:04:35

@Mel = what planet are you on? Do you know there are 5 cmp providers?
Added by Industry Observer on 2012-07-12 13:26:51

@ Smartagent

I agree with you - and your post on the other story regarding cmp. This can never be anything other than a group scheme, the premiums individually would be eye watering but as you say it is not an insurable interest.

Be like protecting your own contents against malicious damage and then wrecking them!!

Your suggestion on individual insurable events is a very good one too.

Petetong I doubt anyone ever gets any top up of a deposit from a tenant during a tenancy. Ever let a tenant in on the promise of payment of the deposit next week, or a bit each month?

You are right to comment on one aspect though, as per your opening sentence. Why on earth anything other than Custodial was allowed, when as someone else has posted the other two schemes are run by vested interests/lobby groups, defeats me.

Best way to protect tenant money is to take it away from those with an interest in getting hold of it.
Added by Petetong on 2012-07-12 11:48:36

Two solutions:

Tenant Deposit Schemes: Agent/landlord never get to touch the money unless they have evidence that they entitled to such funds. They register their interest against the tenants deposit (held in a third party fund). The tenants have to provide an online certificate proving the value of the deposit and have to top up if the deposit has been successfully requested by a landlord/agent. Also removes the requirement for landlord/agent to protect within 30days of receipt.

Landlord education in respect of rent:

I am sure that there are lots of landlords who do not realise that rent is not being paid until 3 or 4 months after the rent should have been credited to their account by the agent. Landlords need to be educated, that Letting Agents, even if they provide a fully managed service, should be questioned and queried if rent is at ALL late. Landlords should be advised to contact THEIR tenants in the event of non-payment to clarify if indeed rent has not been. Evidence of payment to agent is quite easy to provide.

I don't think a reliance of agents to self regulate is the way forward
Added by Ray Evans on 2012-07-12 11:11:59

Regarding NALS.....

If NALS for any reason terminates membership, say on the 1st of a month, Is it to be understood that if the offence took place prior to that date, although at that time the firm was a member, clients are not covered by the NALS Client Money Protection Insurance?
(According to Mr Potter this does not apply to ARLA?)

Seems in that particular case the "protection", from the point of view of landlords, is not worth the paper it is written on?
Added by Potty Potter on 2012-07-12 10:41:26

Two points:
If CMP ceases when NALS membership ceases, why is it invoiced separately for a twelve month period?
Secondly to take Ian Potter's point further, if agents do not inusre the deposit in line with ARLA's rules then thier scheme does not protect it either!
Added by SMARTagent on 2012-07-12 10:28:38

@ Industry Observer

If insured TDP schemes are to be allowed to exist' at all, then the DCLG must ensure that they are compelled to 'fail safe'. In other words there should be no way that a tenancy that has been included under a scheme can be 'unprotected' in the event that the TDP scheme discovers that there has been misappropriation of the deposit during the course of that tenancy.
This could be achieved very easily by treating each tenancy as a separate 'insured' event, rather than the pooling which they are permitted to do at the moment.
There should be no way that the tenant should have to do anything.to protect their position.
Added by SMARTagent on 2012-07-12 09:36:13

All this seems to demonstrate is that the provision of TDP should by totally independent organisations, wholly focused on their role, in this case the protection of Tenants monies, and not operated by a consortia of Trade Bodies who use every opportunity to score cheap points off either other trade bodies or TDP providers.

For the record, TDP is there to protect tenants, not their landlords, the landlords agent or the trade body to which they are associated.
Added by Realist on 2012-07-12 09:14:18

I agree with IO - it needs a single coordinator who doesn't seek a commercial advantage or play petty politics.

SAFE team has proved they can get things done.

These so called regulators and deposit schemes only care about themselves - and shame on ARLA for such a sideswipe - but that illustrates the mindset

Added by mel on 2012-07-12 09:14:01

I have ranted about this before...there needs to be another insurance scheme out there that is just for CMP and does not involve the likes of ARLA or NALS

If there was an insurance policy that just dealt with CMP then I would expect all agents would take this and there would be fewer issues

at the moment NALS/ ARLA have a monopoly on this and its not giving agents value for money, hence not everyone is joining

Whilst i appreciate that this topic is about membership lapsing I think a different type of insurance policy would cover landlords and tenants more effectively
Added by Industry Observer on 2012-07-12 08:35:45

“There is much confusion that use of DPS, the custodial scheme, provides total protection. It does not. There are examples of CMP claims where the deposits had not been registered or paid over when the business failed.”

Bit of a disingenuous swipe at DPS isn't it, and unworthy of ARLA. DPS only fails to work if the deposit is lodged with it but then it fails for some obscure reason to pay out.

How can DPS even attempt to provide total protection if it has not been paid the deposit money?

One thing is for certain - having the money held by DPS provided it is paid into them will ALWAYS have a far higher chance of providing total protection than in an insured scheme where the money is held by the agent or Landlord and the eventual protection depends on the terms of an insurance policy, and membership of a cmp scheme etc

The only way this inductry will achieve a common cmp is to have it sorted out by SAFEagent as an 'independent' leader.

The other cmp providers will never agree to this for two reasons - pride and vanity, plus for some it would mean an unaffordable hike in fees to pay the increased premium for unlimited run off cover.

Sadly it will never happen - but it is what is needed

The other sad point here is that using an agent with cmp still does not guarantee to a Landlord 100% safety.
Added by Interested Observer on 2012-07-12 08:16:08

This is a key issue for the sector as it's important that landords and tenants know that CMP insurance does what it says on the tin: protect client monies if there is misappropriation!

It should not be beyond the capability of all those involved to get to a situation where effectively they are providing the same sort of policies and not some where there is an exclusion on claims where an agent is struck off for misappropriation. That is when customers need the protection the most.

Please can this get sorted out! It brings the sector into disrepute.
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